RegTech Asia 2020: The Future of AML & Fraud Case Management

hello and welcome to our next panel the future of aml and fraud case management my name is manesh samtani i'm the editor for regulation asia so we often hear about how transaction monitoring systems can be further enhanced with data and technology such as a and machine learning we covered that in our first panel of today we're now here to talk about what happens once the transaction is flagged for further due diligence and investigation

and how case management systems can be enhanced to achieve better faster outcomes to intercept through financial crime now joining us on our panel of experts we have first mark knuckle singapore country manager at hill and associates now mark was a former detective at new scotland yard and he also spent several years at interpol in specialized intelligence and investigations roles in his current role at hill and associates the singapore operations

with a focus on risk management risk assessment fraud prevention cyber security welcome mark good morning good morning manish pleased to be here sir you're looking very spiffy today mark yeah you know i'm joining for to to get dressed up to come to events nice and clean and tidy i even have my wife nagging at me because i put a little bit of aftershave on today as well i've got nobody to share this scent with unfortunately but it's a it's a pleasure to be here i think you're the first one wearing a

tie for no no there was one earlier on there was one earlier i was watching next we have rashmi dubier managing director and aipac head of aml at mufg bank rashmi is a seasoned a male professional and practitioner over 15 years experience building and managing complex aml compliance programs at large global banks including citibank jpmorgan chase welcome rashmi my pleasure thank you for joining us we

also have robin lee vice president or aipac at napier robin began his career in silicon valley compliance startups and then he worked among wall street hedge funds later in singapore he set up and then later sold his own compliance startup before joining refinitive where his focus was on market development risk red tech and data now he's at napier and always a pleasure to have you join us robin thank you man thank you regulation asia for for having

me and thank you everyone on the the line for attending really looking forward to this thank you so much robin and finally uh we have karen kenny i believe she's trying to connect at the moment but from the us department of justice the resident legal advisor for the u.s embassy in malaysia at the moment so karen previously served a similar role in bangladesh and before that she was an attorney advisor for the doj on money laundering specializing in dismantling the financial networks of mixed drug cartels so hopefully she'll have

some stories to share with us as well we'll wait for her to to connect a very impressive panel thank you all for being with us today yeah so before we kick off just want to remind the audience to to feel free to submit any questions throughout the discussion uh we will try to get to them and if we can feel free to again send us an email drop us a chat message and so on so i thought i might ask mark to help us kick off the discussion just kind of by so we're here to talk about case management systems and

investigations and so on i thought maybe mark you could you could outline some of the regulatory expectations there are currently for how financial institutions are meant to be handling case management and investigation that you know generated through through other alerting systems go ahead mark i i'd be delighted to take that on that there's managed set out a moment ago i started my my kind of proper career in the police service i was always taught to get my penny that was the first thing that i learned how to do is to write and write very well and to

make sure that there's no errors in it because it might go to court one day and and this is this overarches uh what i was i i've been involved in these past two days or these two half a days with watching some of the the panels that have gone on and i've asked a repeated question in in have you got an eye to the other law are you not just watching the regulators and what the regulators want but actually what the government wants what the international community wants

and what you're liable for are you going to be liable for a prison sentence if you do an illegal act or you utilize systems or you utilize platforms that aren't licensed for or aren't correct essentially with rage tech who's pleasing the police um which is what registec is trying to do at the moment case management for me is one of the most important things when manish asked me to do this panel he said oh it might not be the sexiest

panel in the world mark for me it's the sexiest panel because without case management you've got nothing you've just got a clicker button and send to the law enforcement agency the financial investigation agency in your jurisdiction that's all you've got if you've got no case management you can't build an investigation you can't understand the legal repercussions you're never going to be able to understand the bigger picture that we've been talking about over the past two days

um it's complex and it requires detail so i come from the uk everybody loves a british accent we were talking about that before mine's not too british it's more northern england so you know you get a bit of common in there for those those that know the north of england so with case management you've got highly complex legislation for criminal procedure and guess what you've got it for civil procedure as well

so in the uk you've got the civil procedure rules and you've got the criminal procedurals which govern everything that is going to one day end up in court which might be anything so i'm a really really detailed person and when it comes down to regulation technology or financial technology or any technology for that matter case management is key in case management should be within the overarching portfolio of the technology that you're going to take on

i know that robin's going to speak about that in a moment because obviously the vendor is a provider i've seen his cine's um utility excellent um as are a lot of others but i truly believe that the devil is in the detail i'm sure that when karen gets on that she'll she'll reaffirm that so yeah karen will be on in a minute i hope i i wonder maybe if if we could ask uh rushme you know seeing as you work at a bank i wonder if you could sort of describe the case management process what are what are you typically looking for in

management and i don't know if you can speak about certain areas that you think could be enhanced to sort of boost the efficiency of how the case management process is handled 15 years back i was part of the team that set up the first aml operations shop in apac so this was before we had ml regulations in most countries before may has six to say so they gave me guidelines and oh i still remember the we sort of did a road show for regulators to go out and explain to them what it is

that we were planning to do and why and just look most of them look confused said this is you know you want to know if a transaction is normal why don't you just ask the rm what does an operations center going to do right so it was come a long way from there and if you look at most banks now they pretty much everybody has an aml operation center and that's because with every investigation every aml investigation part of the case management process there is a very distinct operations layer this is where

you have the volume center everything gets thrown into the anything that needs a second look gets thrown into this big bucket from your transaction monitoring systems from your operation shop so if if staff identify red flags your first line stuff everything gets thrown into this big bucket that somebody has to sit and sort through so that within that operations layer there's definitely a lot of room for efficiency and you could have uh efficiency by way of automating some of

the due diligence steps because at that layer it's it's low skilled volume work which is highly highly procedural so it's a lot of room for automation there and there's also room for technologies like ai where you can identify alerts or cases that are obviously going to be unproductive and just come and auto close so there is a lot of room for efficiency in in that layer we can't entirely do away with that layer because that's

you need that to meet your regulatory requirements your expectations you need to take the box with the regulator so everything does have to be that needs escalation should be escalated and you know it needs to go through your formal case management process and then there is your actual investigations layer and this is where a lot of subject matter expertise comes in and it's it's very bespoke every case is different and the due diligence that you need to do the the level of reviews that you need to do whether you're going to

commission an external search are you going to use imb checks are you going to do vessel checks it requires a lot of judgment based decisioning based on the facts of the case and ability to connect dots so that's where you need that human intelligence there is room for efficiency there again in seeing you know how best you can get all the required data in front of your investigator and subsequently when you do your cell filing your sdr filings how how do you

autofill the forms that you know this is the dreams of paperwork that goes with every str that you file and there's room for efficiency there if you could bring in technology to help complete some of the work for the investigator thank you rashmi that's really interesting i i maybe i could uh sort of look the robin for for you know kind of the different perspectives i know you're working with a lot of financial institutions maybe not just on case management but if we could focus on that for now i know it's just

one aspect of what you do but in terms of the case management systems that you've sort of uh gone in and seen at different banks what are some of the main challenges that they're really talking about and and you know what are the areas that are in need of improvement the most from what i'm seeing in the market the the challenge with with existing case management systems is that they're they either products like um sorry like task specific if you want to call it that's assigned to a particular task so whether it's a kyc case management system versus a

transaction monitoring case management system and that's all they do so that's number one and then number two is the fact that that when you when you get these these different products and you're trying to integrate them together so if you take like transaction monitoring for example right you have a you have one vendor that makes the transaction monitoring system you're another vendor that makes the risk-based scorecard system you have another vendor that makes the case management system and so getting getting these things to talk to each other you know you've got to get systems integrators in and

and and and guys like that to really try and and um align align everything but the most important part is getting the data to align as well which is even tougher still thanks robin i i see we have uh we have karen here uh who is joining uh thank you karen so i guess um one of the questions we were we were talking about earlier was some of the the regulatory expectations for policemen uh i know you you you know as a federal prosecutor

uh you've worked with law enforcement and you've dealt with it but you're quite familiar with this process i just wondered if maybe you had any thoughts on the case management process um and how it can be improved the communication process uh case management process thank you so much my apologies to everyone for the delay uh i appreciate you and simon for getting me online uh the case management what i wanted to uh to share with everyone is that from the end user if you will

in a case in the prosecution we rely very heavily on the skill set and the data that is gathered at the very beginning if you will the boots to the ground stage which is where and i believe a lot of uh your colleagues and people watching today are and as a federal prosecutor what we're doing ultimately if you will like a director i'm taking all the pieces together you know analyzing them you know looking through or applying them to the statutes so when i look at case management for me that case management is going to begin

at the very first start which is the collection of data who's doing it what are the protocols and then what is that information the next link in the chain and a very important link is the investigator whether for me it's dea hsi fbi you know what is their information how are they working closely with the with the analytics and then they will come and oftentimes they will have a specialized financial analyst who will take all that data knows what they're looking at crunch it

and then give it to me and then my job is to bring it all together and also to explain to the jury the processes how did we come to this information how did it start what is the legitimate legitimacy or the province if you will of that information so for me case management is a million moving parts bringing them all together i think mark might have might agree with you on that and mark we've had a few discussions about um you know the different pieces that you believe should be automatically incorporated into a casemate do you want to talk a bit about

that yeah i mean i mean for us today obviously these these two of us that hail from a law enforcement kind of background both myself and karen bring the sexy element today to this conference and then robin and rashmi bring the other sexy elements so we can come from the truly sexy background but the other two are far too beautiful to mention so for for me as i stated earlier the devil's in the detail karen comes from a prosecution-based

approach law enforcement background okay i come from a law enforcement specified background so for me within the uk i put the case together i decide what goes where how when and then i go to my prosecutor for an impartial decision it's got a bigger holistic remit i took that knowledge and i went and did a delegated nominated officer's role within a bank and within that bank i

noticed that like the prosecution element within the us there's a little bit here there's a little bit there there's a little bit here a little bit here and then this person puts it all together up here is that really the best format i'd say in certain jurisdictions it is but with banking where you've got significant organized crime players on a global basis not perhaps the right model to go with so i noticed that the draw was over here kind of aml was over here the

sanctions were you know there was bit bits everywhere and case case so production order and judges orders were significantly over here as well never inputted into a system there's some reasons for that certainly within the uk and some other jurisdictions however you're missing a massive piece of the pool over here through not activating and viewing your case management systems then you've got all the complexities of outside data as well

and with case management it's about a slow progression of putting that jigsaw together as karen rightly spoke about a moment ago as i said at the start of this the pen i started with a pen i was told by my instructor within the police write things down learn them don't just go in head first and that's the that's the same with fintech regtech the financial industry learn at the bottom and start your way

up because case management is complex you need to understand the other legislation that sits in the background that will one day impact the financial institution that you're working for if you want to look at it this way enterprise risk management perspective so you need to know how your actions are going to affect future events within that financial institution if you're working within a financial institution because there's lots of matters when it comes down to case monitoring

because you've got law enforcement you've got financial industry you've got corporate clients you've got legal clients you've got global entities you've got national entities you've got regional entities and it gets complex and complex more complex but you need to start with the bottom level of detail and information and being able to piece it together if i learned one thing from interpol is that every sin and it might seem very obvious but every country works in a wholly

different way no matter where their jurisdictional legislation is originated from so around here singapore malaysia a couple of other countries you know the uk brought across in its infinite wisdom the legislation um the that it deemed fit to bring within that cultural archetype that has then impacted the region but not the culture okay so you've got you've got different methods of case management throughout these jurisdictions so from

what what karen might deal with over in malaysia is different to what we deal with in singapore hong kong especially now the recent security legislation and that security legislation will impact upon the fintech regitech infrastructure because you'll have things moving on a vast basis so today you've got the sanctioning of the individuals from the icc yeah how massively is that

gonna impact the global sphere and the international organizations and then the banks and then the fintech red check industry yeah that's really interesting your case management system um maybe robin you can you can talk a bit about that being our resident technologist how do you get all

this sort of data from from you know whether it's a transaction monitoring system whether it's from biometrics whether it's from payment screening and so on how does all this data in your perspective how does it feed in the case management system um how should it and i guess where do you get efficiencies out of that wait resident technology is that a way another way of saying silicon valley node [Laughter]

well yeah i mean to answer your question i mean i can i can certainly talk about it from an api perspective and how we do things that they hear we've kind of put together a a platform and this platform isn't just a software platform like like an ios or android or something like that but it's it's also a data platform as well and so based based on this this platform approach that we take we build the different apps on top of that which include transaction

monitoring risk-based port card a case management tool the pavement screening that you mentioned um as well as a client's reading piece as well and so so what happens excuse me is this data platform not only takes in data from different apps themselves but we can also integrate it with with other elements um of other other systems which which um and and and ingest the data from whether it be a core banking system

or a crm or what have you and so you know the the nerd term we build what's called the data lake within that platform and then and then from that everything can get extracted and that's kind of what i wanted to what i was insinuating earlier on the previous question that that because we have this data lake within our platform our case management system can ingest pretty much anything whether it be whether it be the transaction monitoring data

right through to the payments reading data right through the kyc data external systems as well we use a technology called apache nifi which is basically a really easy way of ingesting data into our solution um compatible with all data and disk types that are around today and then and then build the app um based on this so so that that data once it sort of let's say in the case management system is that something that then a user would

have to go through manually and sort of sift through or work in some of those processes the process will be automated so we we offer workflows as well which are which are configurable not not they don't require coding right the configuration it's just a matter of of of you know ticking a couple of boxes or opening a couple of fields and mapping that that data to that specific build field we could put that together very very quickly okay that sounds like that that kind of one other thing is one

thing that we're seeing is from a case management perspective is not just to look at things from that transaction monitoring perspective or that kyc from the full-blown customer perspective and when me and mark were talking about this earlier he actually got really really excited about about this element he thinks it could be very very useful for anyone who left to do this stuff so yeah yeah i i've seen mark get excited um uh i i thought

um maybe rush maybe we could ask rushme you know because you're out of bank and you know i assume that you know when cases come in there i understand there's still a lot of manual work involved as we were talking about earlier what do you sort of see i i suppose you know one year two years three years down the track do you see case management at a bank sort of working the same way or how do you envision sort of these systems being enhanced how would you like victim and hands to make your life and

your job work that people like robert are doing can see that it's it's already changing as a compliance officer in the bank you you have two sets of responsibilities there's the responsibility to protect the bank from regulatory risk which means you have to achieve technical compliance with regulations every single time and then there's the social responsibility and the need to protect the bank from reputational risk

which is where you actually need the ability to identify true financial crimes risks and help mitigate those risks now for the regulatory risk where you have to achieve technical compliance you don't have a choice you do have to tick all the boxes which means you need to cast a wide net and catch everything that could potentially match any of the regulatory reflex so that i i don't see that going away in the near future and

unless you know regulators completely decide to change their approach to how they're going to supervise banks that's not going to change so banks will still have to go through that voluminous process the operational process that i talked about earlier but case management systems can help speed up that process but then comes the actual financial crimes risk mitigation layer where you could take and it's actually more effective to take a take a targeted approach or centered on

specific specific typologies and having a data lake with the oh wow what's that so that's where having a data lake with your case management system could prove to be a game changer because that gives you the ability to connect dots

across identified red flags you know you're not just looking at potentially suspicious transactions and exceptions that are generated from your transaction monitoring systems but you're looking at cases that previously resulted in the sar and and having a data link gives you the ability to see if any of the parties involved in that case uh are associated with any of the your other customers do those same names or entities appear in kyc files if the same case management system

applies to your screening process as well has your screening process picked up anything that's relevant so you then have this analytics layer sitting on top with a really good case management tool that helps you focus on specific risks which are likely to be highly productive so your your transaction monitoring systems typically have very very low productivity less than 0.1 percent in most cases but when you have the ability to then target your reviews on specific risks

through a really good case management system your productivity rate your conversion rate is going to be quite high and i think i was going to i was wanting to ask a bit about that uh that second layer right the sort of investigations blair how did how do you sort of and i guess we can we should differentiate you know super but i wonder if you could speak to some of the ways that banks can sort of improve efficiency in the

investigations work itself the endpoint is very different right for a bank the end point is a file no file decision yeah you don't have to be able to prove anything so as long as you have a reasonable basis for suspicion you go ahead and file you're done and any subsequent that work that is done is to is for internal risk mitigation depending on the degree of suspicion you and our own risk appetite

you then decide whether that's a customer that you want to continue to bank or do do you want to take any further actions to mitigate but but the file no file deception that just requires a reasonable basis for suspicion so how far do you go with that it's in most instances the investigations are based on google searches research tools that are readily available to investigators

we're we're not going to be spending these weeks timing is also critical we can't be sitting on a reportable transaction for too long right so we need to file and and at the most you you have two to three weeks to make a decision to the extent possible it's going to be based on tools that are readily accessible to investigators again the more tools the investigators have access to at their desktop the more efficient that process is going to be but there may be exceptional circumstances where

it's it could be either a highly complex case where it takes your time to connect all the dots and the information you need for your research is not readily available you need to commission external searches those investigations typically have a long tail or where we are dealing with sensitive customer a government entity or someone with a governmental connection for example where you want to be a bit careful and you want to make sure that you've you know dotted all your eyes and

crossed all your t's those investigations will have a long tail and in with those cases it does what it does you have to go through that process there are no shortcuts so so i guess um we can also uh you know once once you get to that decision that is the reportable transaction uh it gets reported mark can you talk a bit about the the process that comes after that yeah of course though i i mean with the martin luther show here so karen can always pop up at some point as well i've worked in both levels so let's give

the uk for example the uk it will fly over to the international prime agency it will sit in a pile if it's a consent star it will go to straight away it will go to constabulary so it might go to metropolitan courts it might go to northumbria okay so it depends on where that individual might live or that transaction has occurred if it's a normal targe of which there are millions it will sit in a pile be ready to digest by law enforcement at some point in the

future that's the that was the uk's model whether it is anymore i don't know i'm not involved with law enforcement i've been since 2016. so this is the problem is that there is too much data which is where robin comes in or which is where one of the many other i should look like a race car driving by now with all the advertisements on me you know sat around with my belt one of those products was made to do

that process to as one of your panel presenters stated earlier and i think you were you were hosting the panel talking about rubbish data there's never any rubbish data but i understand what he was talking about because if law enforcement who are very very busy creatures get a million tars they're never going to be able to deal with it because the technology is archaic so at a law enforcement end there's always this discussion in relation to public private partnerships

public private partnerships will never really get off the ground unless and i spoke about this on one of the rubber panels with another competitor another badge on your shoulder that actually what you have is you've got no legal body in there you've got nobody to watch the detail and you have very little in terms of understanding technology and how the material will be converted with all the data protection act legislation civil procedure procedure etc etc

so investigation at the other end once the sars str has gone through does depend whether it's a consent process or not different processes in different countries as well there might not be a consent process in one country and this is this is kind of the problem is that we have standards that are recommendations so fataf recommends so you don't get the same in every single

country because it depends on whether or not that specific law or architecture can can cope with a different cultural bias that has been made in another country because that's what it's all about and i guess karen you're you're one step further along in that process uh you know as a prosecutor what are you looking for in sort of a case that lands on your desk once it's been through all these you know earlier processes been talking about

sure thank you and i think i'd like to back up a little bit and just talk a little bit and about how cases would line up would wind up on my desk as a federal prosecutor and to open a u.s federal case is uh there's actually expression used in america don't make it a federal case because it becomes this huge very complex but a very detailed prosecution so when we undertake any prosecution regardless of the stage that it is at manish we do it very carefully we take our time we make sure that we have the evidence

and that that evidence is evidence that is transparent and bottom line for me the one thing i care about manesh i care about can i get it into evidence in a courtroom in the united states because if i can't get it into evidence in a courtroom i might as well hang it on my wall and admire it because it's useless to me and that's not just the data the numbers that's also the human beings who are processing them they become my witnesses so for me that's what i'm looking at bottom line i'm looking at can i get this in front of a judge and if i can

and it's good evidence will the jury understand it number one and will the jury through the witness buy it so it's a it's a bit different for me uh the way cases begin many times an agent will come in and say karen i have a really good idea uh you know i'd like to investigate this based upon xyz i have an informant informants can be anyone uh many times in money laundering cases and otherwise they happen to be ex-wives and uh spurned lovers of both sexes and they make fantastic witnesses because they know where all the bodies are

buried and they know exactly everything and they are more than happy to come in and talk um so i will go through a you know we we do historical investigations not reactive we don't not something happens in boom or we're in that you know we're indicting it we do it historically we are building that like a structure if you will so the uh ultimately for me as a federal prosecutor once i'm comfortable that i have all the information this goes back to what rashmi was talking about about the data pulling all that going through speaking

to the financial expert whoever that may be um and it makes sense to me i understand it and finally most importantly that it actually is a violation of law and at that point as a federal prosecutor i have a number of routes but traditionally i'll if i want i can open a grand jury investigation it's something we inherited from the british uh not in many jurisdictions uh but it's an excellent forum it's essentially uh just citizens who have been called to sit to listen to cases to make a legal uh determination in the sense that you

know do the facts that they have been presented is there enough to indict here now that's a very short two-second law school kind of uh definition but then the grand jury decides they vote either to indict not indict once they indict we're off and running and then as markets said you're bringing in everything from the very beginning and then i have to put it all before a court of law but the last thing i want to talk about from the investigative point of view would be interesting to see from ashimi robin or mark or manish your perspective

i know in the u.s we also at the federal system will have saw review teams where we're looking at suspicious uh transactions suspicious reports within the prosecutorial you know with the you know law enforcement etc uh i can use those when i say i i'm talking on behalf of the prosecution team which incorporates investigators analysts and myself as a prosecutor i can use that sar or str's people say for information but i can't put that piece of paper into trial

in a federal report okay so i've got to start there it's a good lead but again i have to that has to lead us to concrete evidence whether that's the form of documentation uh data or human being that i can put on the stand so for me bottom line manesh i want to get back guys uh and to get those bad guys you gotta take your time you have to have skilled people you have to work together and then you got to put it all before a jury so yeah so so again again like karen and to reiterate what karen was saying

it's different processes with no uk based process and the investigator actually carries it all the way through and does karen's role as well until it gets to an impartial charging decision that is then charged you still deal with all the case paper matters i've been dealing with all that detail all that minutiae that granular material and then the only process apart from a little bit

of advisory in terms of the legal context of the case is the process of instructing council council a barrister will then act within court to persuade a jury that's what depending on whether they go guilty or not okay so a different system that we take it all the way through so i i've had discretions with several of

karen's colleagues in the past the the approach is different in the us to what it is in the uk commonwealth-based country in terms of that investigation criteria that material for me is i couldn't use that as until i couldn't use that form of intelligence okay so i couldn't put it into the court i couldn't let the court anywhere near it okay but what i can do is then review it and then go to a court

with a court order with a production order go to the judge and say to the judge i need this material for this purpose signs it i then go to the bank the bank gives me the raw material i do my investigation that's the way that sars works um out of school talk it's all over the internet people want to go and do within the legislation this is what i'm saying about details it's law it's all this stuff at the back of me at the moment it's detailed it's composite it allows

governance it allows things to be done right when i was talking about legislation earlier on yesterday's kind of comments question element is that is that here in stem report so so the firm that i'm comfortable with is a licensed security service provider okay so here we can act as a gateway for people registered why are fintech registered products

implemented within banks that then haven't been through those licensing programs and when you get to court at the other end or you've got the spf knocking on your bank's door with a two-year prison sentence what's going to happen then all about the detail it's all about enterprise risk management mark i i'd love to spend another hour with you here but i'm being told we're we're wrong and that always happens with mark doesn't it i thought maybe maybe if

we could just have a quick run through each of you and just kind of have you maybe spend 20 to 30 seconds uh just final thoughts or key messages on case management investigations uh to leave our audience with some final thoughts um let's start with rashmi i agree with uh how mark started off and i i actually think you know as a financial crimes compliance officer this is the sexiest part of the work that we do it really is it's a it's a culmination

of everything that we do across the program right the hundreds of millions of dollars or the billions of dollars that banks spend on kyc or screening or transaction monitoring process it all comes comes to this you need to be able to effectively detect your financial crimes risks and report if this part fails nothing else matters it's sometimes it it does tend to sort of fade away from the limelight because the limelight is on from a bank perspective

it's typically on kyc because that's that cuts across all areas of the business whereas uh with in investigations you have a bunch of people sitting in a back office somewhere and doing most of the grunt work so they they don't tend to be in the spotlight but this is what matters and having a very effective case management system having analysts who who are highly skilled at investigations and depending on the layer that they are working on

right that says there's that investigations layer that requires expertise and you have to make sure that they have invested and making in the in in resourcing that function with people who are highly skilled competent i'm having a very robust feedback across these different areas of the program having the ability to ingest leads that come from law enforcement from time to time you can't have a rigid program your program should be able to assess different risks differently and

fast track a certain review so when there's a leak from law enforcement that will obviously have to be fast tracked through the process you need a programmer case management system that is sufficiently flexible to accommodate all this and and and that's really critical to having a successful financial crimes compliance program in a bank thank you rashmi robin yeah i want to reiterate the sex scenes that my my two previous um panelists just uh highlighted it the most sexy part i mean steve jobs always got to start

with the customer first and work backwards and there isn't any other tool in the reg tech stacking in my humble opinion that represents that better than case management you know our solutions end to end you know we it can be used from like smaller customers right through to do bigger customers as well but i think what i said earlier about having that that data lake data platform is really really important element to that i think that the other thing you that i would also you know sorry man i've got to i've got

to plug this in here is how karen talk about the the fintech partnership that she put together that that's that's really really interesting um so um yeah that's it for me that was smooth robin thank you that was that was not go ahead karen actually thank you i just want to first uh start with my thanks thank you to everyone on the panel uh thank you for the opportunity to speak on behalf of the united states department of justice uh to you and your audience members we

at the department of justice are committed to enforcing the u.s federal laws in a fair and transparent manner and our ability to do so with respect to many crimes but in addition to financial crime really depends on the compliance officers the people that work for them what you do is important what you do matters to us and uh we look forward to uh you know closing we're getting a closer community uh frequently unfortunately a lot of times the first time you would see me in a federal court of law it's not a good thing okay we want to have meetings before

then where we're face to face as colleagues you know sharing information what robin had spoken about was we have actually i've launched the us department of justice fintech public-private partnership dialogue looking at aml and counterterrorism financing this is not one of those financial intelligence partnerships of which there are many and they're doing a fantastic job this is more of literally getting startups ceos new people to the red tech uh fintech um

actually at the same table with u.s government with regulators you know the reserve banks myself and what we're doing monash is we're learning from each other and what we get to learn from the ceos these startups whether they've just begun or they're more mature you know how can what's happening what's working what's not what do we learn from the us government side we have an opportunity to really get in at the uh you know very core and explain to them what our regulations are so they're familiar hopefully but if not why they're important and to have that discussion in a

respectful exchange of ideas so that we don't wind up in a u.s federal court of law where they're saying will the defendant please rise that's a situation no one wants so we're looking to kind of obviate that and my thanks to robin who is my who has been fantastic as a liaison uh connecting us the us government with people who are interested and have open minds so thank you robin that was beautiful you could have been a trial attorney that was so smooth and thank you to my fellow panelists

fantastic job thank you let's um let's post some details on that on the uh event chat but but aside from that thank you all thank you all ma thank you mark thank you rush me robin karen we've overrun a bit so yeah just want to say thank you for joining the panel and i'll speak to you again soon